"Are you part of the problem or are you part of the solution?" It was a MC5 rally cry back in 1968. It was black and white back then - you were for the man or you were against him. The MC5 were actively against. They were one of the first groups to make everything they did a political statement. The strident stance has always polarised people. Fans included. Were they political revolutionaries or did they just want to get famous like everybody else? Well, the FBI, for one, certainly treated them as counter revolutionaries.

The controversy that surrounded them in the late 60s, early 70s still remains. A couple of years back Future Now films produced a documentary MC5: A Testimonial. Recently, the filmmakers and the band have had a major falling out and are heading for the courts. Meanwhile, the MC5's remaining members - drummer Dennis Thompson, bassist Michael Davis and guitarist Wayne Kramer - have reunited to do a world tour as DKT/MC5. The irony being the reason for the reunion is a deal with Levis. In the black and white world set up by the MC5, back in '68, the idea of the band fronting a corporate brand is not part of the solution. Or is it revolution from the inside? The Levis t-shirts sporting the MC5 logo have been famously modeled by the likes of Justin Timberlake and Jennifer Aniston. Certainly, most fans don't begrudge the remaining members of the MC5 earning some money but, it appears, there are certain ways they don't want them to earn it. Frontmen from Levis is one. But, let's be honest, the MC5 have always been a band that is damned if they do and damned if they don't. The bottom line is, behind the rhetoric, they were always an amazing rock n roll band. Maybe they still are...

Who do you think is a more controversial band - DKT/MC5 or the MC5?
I think with the original MC5 everything was a lot more volatile. Today we're dealing with the music and any controversy that surrounds the band comes from a handful of pundits. In those days the controversy came from the police. The police are much more lethal than music critics.

In the past you've often said, "I'm ready to sell out but nobody's buying" - are more people buying these days?
I'm as shocked as anyone to find this tour is selling out. I've been pleasantly blind sided by it. I never expected to do this - I never had an inkling that it could be a possibility.

When did it become a possibility that the remaining MC5 could together and play?
Well, we did the show in London and it went pretty well. I didn't know what to expect but we had an opportunity to get me, Michael and Dennis back together to celebrate the work we did in the MC5 and it went pretty well so we thought, 'maybe we can get a couple more jobs'. We asked our agent to see if there were anymore offers and in 48 hours it turned into a world tour.

What was the actual spark of the reformation?
The actual spark was that Rob Tyner's widow, Rebecca, Gary Grimshaw - the artist who did some MC5 artwork and Leni Sinclair, the photographer who used to work with, inadvertently licensed the MC5's trademark without our permission and sold us out. And we were able to rescue the trademark and turn a bad situation into a good one. We suggested to Levis that, rather than get into a big protracted court battle, if they loved the MC5 and wanted to celebrate the MC5 and wanted to be associated with the MC5 then why don't we put out a live show. Why don't we bring the surviving guys together with some special guests, we do it in a small club in London and we do it for free for the people and all the people who care about the music of the MC5 can come and hear this music and we'll film it, we'll record it. And they thought that was a great idea. We were thrilled to do it.

You obviously copped a lot of flak for taking out a contract with Levis.
No. We copped a little but not a lot. But that's nothing new. Anytime you try to accomplish anything, somebody's going to bitch about it.

It's irony, right, that the band who said 'Fuck Hudson's … then become frontmen for Levis?
You could say it was ironic but you'd be missing both points. The point was that Hudson's wouldn't sell our record. Had Hudson's endorsed the MC5 we wouldn't have had a problem with them. Levis put their money where their mouth was.

Are you a fan of Justin Timberlake …
He's alright with me. You know that music is not for me. I'm a 56-year-old anarchist intellectual. He makes music for teenagers. But it's alright with me - there's a lot more evil in the world than Justin Timberlake. And, either he has the good taste in T-shirts or the people around him have good taste in T-shirts.

Jennifer Aniston is someone who's famously worn the t-shirt on 'Friends'. Is it strange to see the logo being worn in that context?
It was brilliant. That was the idea all along. We want people to be aware of what it is we're doing.

If a Justin Timberlake fan comes up to you and says, 'I've got the t-shirt but I want to hear some MC5'. What record do you tell them to check out first?
There's the 'Big Bang' record that we put out on Rhino which is a good starting point for a new MC5 fan because there's a cross section of the three major label records. And there's good liner notes that tell the story so it's a good introduction.

What about one particular song that presents the essence of the MC5?
Probably 'Skunk' (off High Time) because that one really combines the aggressive hard rock guitar attack with the self referential lyrics and a nod to the free jazz movement that meant so much to us then and still does today.

Some of the best footage going around of the original band is courtesy of US government surveillance. That's one great thing that has come out of the governmental pressure you were subjected to…
(Laughing) True. How many rock bands have been under surveillance by the FBI? Obviously they thought there was something dangerous in this music. I have no regrets. I don't live in the past but I don't close the door on it either.

Obviously one of the big issues in your recent life has been the band's fallout with Future Now Films who put together the documentary MC5: A Testimonial. Has that been resolved?
No, it hasn't. It's not my problem to solve. It's the filmmakers problem to solve. You know a deal is a deal and they said we had a deal, I said we had a deal and we acted on the deal and then they said they didn't have a deal.

What did you think of the film?
I love the film. No one is more disappointed than I am that the movie is not being seen by thousands of fans. I'm the one who's most disappointed. But there is some good news because we have another film that comes out on July 6 called Sonic Revolution which is a concert DVD that has some of that FBI surveillance footage that you mention and a host of other bonuses, behind the scenes footage, early promo films, some home movies with narration from Michael Davis, Dennis Thompson and myself. It's a nice package. It's a film of the concert we did in London last year with Lemmy, Dave Vanian, Nicky from the Hellacopters, Ian Astbury.

MC5 have obviously influenced many bands but none of them have taken cues from your stage show - I was really surprised to see footage of you guys dancing your asses off…
Well, you know, certain dimensions of the MC5 have been narrow cast and marketed in a whole plethora of heavy metal and punk bands but there's a much larger thing going on that the MC5 represents and it includes rhythm 'n' blues and rock 'n' roll. Not just that it rocks but it rolls. There's a rhythm to it. There's a groove to it. You got to move in the music. That's part of the way it's designed. It's not a cerebral thing, it's a physical thing. There's an action to be taken as a result of the music. Music itself is physical.

Was that the Motown step revue influence - all that choreographed leg kicking etc.
A part of it was but it's probably even more tribal. You could trace the roots of it back to rhythm itself. Rhythm being the original music; the drum being the original instrument and what it is that we find compelling about music. It starts with a rhythm and in order to create art in the language of music you have to know the vocabulary and that certainly starts with rhythm. It's all about the rhythm.

How have your political leanings changed in the last thirty years?
They haven't really. I still am about justice, I'm still about peace, I'm still anti-war. I'm still for all the things that are unglamorous about civilisation but are so necessary - health care, education, equality. And I do the work that I can doing all those areas. I'm still anti-establishment in the sense of this current (Bush) regime who I think are amongst the stupidest in American history and the most dangerous.

When was the last time you were proud to be an American?
Um, I'm proud to be an American when I see people that help each other. People that do something for each other and when I see things that Americans do that help the world. But that has more to do with appreciating being a human being and less to do with whatever country I happen to have been born in.

Last week we heard that guitarist Robert Quine died and your Cyberpunk album from a few years ago gave us a chance to hear a re-united Richard Hell and the Voidoids tune 'Oh'. Just wondering if you and Robert had much to do with each other?
Well, we were neighbours when I lived in New York City. We were both guys who played the electric guitar and tried to play it in a way that one might think was unorthodox. So it gave us common ground plus we both slept with the same woman for a while. It was a woman that he and I were seeing at the same time and that's how I met him. I'm sad to hear he's died. It's always a loss to see someone go before their time.

  ©2004 Christopher Hollow