In film
circles D.A. Pennebaker is renown as a true innovator. His name
synonymous with cinéma vérité - a rough and ready style of film making best
seen in the Bob Dylan bio Don't Look Back that revolutionised documentary
making. It's also been used in Hollywood by the likes of Christopher Guest
(This is Spinal Tap, Best in Show etc) and Tim Robbins (Bob
Roberts). Pennebaker has managed to record many defining moments of 20th
Century American culture. Behind the scenes when John F. Kennedy was elected
to the American presidency (Primary), front of stage when Bob Dylan
went electric (Eat the Document), when Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and
Otis Redding shot to international fame (Monterey Pop). Behind the
scenes again during Bill Clinton's successful 1992 campaign (The War Room).
The list goes on.
Down From the Mountain is a recent Pennebaker effort with partner Chris Hegedus that is a celebration of the acclaimed country, bluegrass and gospel O Brother, Where Art Thou? soundtrack. It follows renown record producer T-Bone Burnett as he stages a series of concerts featuring the likes of Emmylou Harris, Gillian Welch, John Hartford, Ralph Stanley and Alison Krauss.
Let me start by asking if you feel like Woody
Allen's character Zelig. You've managed to pop up at many defining moments
of 20th Century American culture.
I guess I feel more like the one turns into the robber that he meets. I kind
of like that one. I feel like I'm a part of my era but I just reflected what
a lot of other people have done within it. I think people look at a film about
Dylan as being a film about Dylan not being a piece of filmmaking particularly.
I can't agree with that. Your name is synonymous
with the cinéma vérité filmmaking style. Don't Look Back being just
as famous for it's style as it's subject.
Yeah, that's true. We're not very well organised and we're kind of lazy. We
never do second takes and we don't have a tripod. So you're right we do have
a style of filmmaking that comes out of a method of observation that we didn't
set out and plan but it came by way of thing that worked best for us and we
stuck with it.
Down From the Mountain is akin to the
Buena Vista Social Club film not so much in style but certainly in
content. There's a genre of forgotten music with a forgotten audience waiting
to lap it up.
I think they're quite different in the ways that we think about but most people
don't see those differences. But I think in terms of finding an audience where
nobody thought an audience was hiding that's probably true.
Do you think the music from O! Brother Where
Art Thou? is more worthy than the film itself?
I think they're both pretty interesting in their own right. I mean the film
is so off the wall that you don't know what you're watching. It's half comedy,
half movie. It took me by surprise. I didn't know what to make of it when
I first saw it but I did know that the music really got me. I thought it can
ride on the music all by itself.
Most people hear a banjo and immediately think
Deliverance.
Yeah. Except that was such a rough film. I mean that film went down hill dramatically
in such a scary way that the music got kind of lost in it for me. I know what
you mean. That opening thing where they do that banjo riff is an incredible
moment in film.
It defines the music for most people. Do you
think you've re-address that with Down From the Mountain?
I don't think you could set out to define music that's been around for a 1000
years coming down from family to family. I'm not sure you could put all that
in one bucket and just hand it to anybody.
Deliverance
did it.
There's a kind of history aspect to this music that's it like coming on one
of the lost pieces of Plato or something. It takes your breath away because
it's something from the past that could've gone by you and you could've missed.
Normally in our cultures we're not encouraged to think about the past much
and every ten years everything gets renovated. All the movies are remade with
whoever the new famous people are, music is all re-sung by whoever momentarily
celebrities are. I think the idea of anything which carries that quality of
history in it that goes way back it does catch people. They may not expect
it but it certainly catches and I know that's my great-great grandmother talking
to me in some way.
How do you feel about filmmakers like Christopher
Guest and Tim Robbins using and parodying your film style? Bob Roberts
had numerous allusions to Don't Look Back.
I know and I was a little confused about why he wanted to do that. I didn't
think the film was that fantastic and I don't think the allusions to Don't
Look Back were going to help it any. I mean most people have never heard
of Don't Look Back who went to see that movie. It was the first time
I had one of my movies studied by anybody. It became peculiar to me. I can
understand his being fascinated by Dylan and this is maybe as close to Dylan
as he's going to get now. That movie threw me a little bit I have to admit.
The film of the behind the scenes machinations
of the '92 Bill Clinton campaign (The 'War Room) seems to have spawn
a plethora of TV shows from Spin City to West Wing. Do you think
it served as a blue print for these new dramas and comedy shows?
I think that people get whatever their ideas are from wherever they see them.
If they happen to see one of our films that's live bait. I'm not surprised
that they could use something from it and I would myself. I'm the first to
steal something if it really appeals to me and gets me started somewhere.
It's the old maxim of 'talent borrows, genius
steals'?
That sounds a little Blakeian to me. It's possible yeah.
Can you tell us if Monterey Pop outtakes like the
Byrds, Buffalo Springfield and the Grateful Dead are going to be released
on DVD?
Yeah I think it's going to be released in the fall. We're making a three box
set of Monterey Pop including two other films that we made from the
outtakes - Jimi Plays Monterey and Shake on Otis Redding. As
well as other outtakes so I think it's going to be an exciting release. We've
gone back to the original film and re-mixed the music.
While we're on the subject of your old films
coming out on DVD. Can you tell us about You Know Something is Happening
- your version of what became Eat the Doucment. Is yours ever likely
to come out?
That's kind of like a lost jewel. I feel like I've got a piece of string with
chewing gum on it trying to get a nickle out of the grading when I think about
that film. Someday it will appear. It was never supposed to be a film. The
deal I made with Dylan was I'd help shoot his film (Eat the Document).
He wanted to direct something but since he knew even less about directing
than I did the two of us were like a couple of blind sheep walking off the
cliff. What finally got made as Eat the Documentis interesting but
it doesn't ever show what I thought were just such fantastic performances
because it cut them all up and I think that was a mistake. But it's Dylan's
film to do with as he chooses so until he wants to have people see it another
way. You can only see the street version that I guess is around but it's pirated
left and right.
Do you find it fascinating that Bob Dylan -
1966 is an industry in itself.
He's one of the mysteries of our times. How he can stand like a tower yet
you don't hear him on the radio very much. How he maintains that peculiar
sovereignty over our minds is kind of intriguing. I don't know how to explain
it but I know its there.
Can you tell us about the John Lennon/Bob Dylan
taxi ride? Again that footage is almost an industry in itself...
It's not a taxi it's a limo but I know what you mean. I've seen it replicated
after so many copies that it's barely recognisable. But it was early morning
and it was part of making that film and John hung out with us and having those
two talking together was vastly entertaining, vastly. It was just Bobby Neuwirth
and I and John and Dylan.
Obviously Dylan is a very sick man. At one point
he says, 'What if I vomit into the camera. I've done just about everything else
into that camera, man.'
He was a little hung over at that point. It looked like he wanted to throw up
on the camera so I was paying attention to him very carefully. It would've been
a new experience for me.
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©2002 Christopher Hollow